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Traveller-digest            Monday, 15 July 1996        Volume 1996 : Number 250

(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

         1. That other fall theory... :)
         2. Re: Lester Smith.
         3. Niven and Ringworld.
         4. The Gazelle's Drop Tanks.
         5. Long Night and Oxy/Nitro asteroids.
         6. Re: Jump space theory
         7. Software
         8. Re: Pop Culture in Trav (was Corn Dogs)
         9. Courier Services.
        10. Re: The Iridium Standard
        11. Re: Pop Culture in Trav (was Corn Dogs)
        12. Re: Jump space theory
        13. Re: ID4 ****SPOILER WARNING****
        14. Re: Starship Construction
        15. Re: Lester Smith.
        16. Re: The Iridium Standard
        17. More IG praise
        18. Re: Niven and Ringworld.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter L. Berghold" <peterb@superlink.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 18:31:12 -0400
Subject: That other fall theory... :)

Well... pro or con, I've gone ahead and webafied the "other fall theory" and
put it on 
my web page...

http://mars.superlink.net/~peterb/trav/trav.html

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- -=-=-
Peter L. Berghold -- Sr Unix Specialist, TCG, Staten Island NY
http://mars.superlink.net/~peterb               peterb@superlink.net 
VOX: (718) 355-2722                              -or- berghold@tcg.com
FAX: (718) 355-4282   "... once more into the breach..."


------------------------------

From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:21:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Lester Smith.

Hi all. Some opinions about Lester Smith's revelations:

1) I like the age limit thing. I imagine there will be pros and cons to 
being old/young?
2) The idea that stats get you in automatically doesn't bother me.
3) 5 year terms makes things a little less anthropocentric.
4) INT+EDU limit gone.  Good, never used it myself.
5) Changeing careers is possible.  Good, but I hope it doesn't lead to 
munchkinizing like in TNE, where if you changed careers constantly you 
could make "super character".
6) Where do skills factor into the task system?
7) Hmm, very AD&D-esque, but okay...

Regarding the combat stuff, everything seems fine except the range bands 
thing.  I _really_ think this is a bad idea.  I don't know why they 
decided on this, but I don't like it.  I guess it's easy enough to make 
your own movement systems, but I think this whole idea is bad for the 
game's popularity.  It's too unrealistic.

Charles.

<0>    "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -Helen Keller 	 <0>
<0>     Charles Collin (charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca), 		 	 <0>
<0>     Psychology Department, McGill University.  		 	 <0> 
<0>     1205 Dr. Penfield, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1B1.  	 	 <0>
<0>  WEB: http://www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/chaudhuri/homepage.clab.html 	 <0>


------------------------------

From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:23:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Niven and Ringworld.

Hi all.  With all this talk about inspirations for the Imperium and 
authors and such, I was wondering if anyone esle out there has tried/owns 
a copy of the Ringworld game by Chaosium?  Has anyone 
worked out conversions to Traveller?

Charles.

<0>    "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -Helen Keller 	 <0>
<0>     Charles Collin (charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca), 		 	 <0>
<0>     Psychology Department, McGill University.  		 	 <0> 
<0>     1205 Dr. Penfield, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1B1.  	 	 <0>
<0>  WEB: http://www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/chaudhuri/homepage.clab.html 	 <0>


------------------------------

From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:28:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: The Gazelle's Drop Tanks.

Hi all.  Daniel Taylor and someone else having been talking about the drop
tanks on a Gazelle.  Some confusion in the discussion apparently arises
from the fact that one of you is talking TNE and the other CT/MT.  In TNE,
the external fuel is used to get more G-turns (since that's the major
limiting factor), while in CT/MT it is used mainly for increasing jump
range and actually reduces the G performance for the craft.  One could 
have external tanks for either purpose in either game, but they're most 
useful for maneuvering in TNE and jumping in CT/MT.

Hope this helps,
Charles.

<0>    "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -Helen Keller 	 <0>
<0>     Charles Collin (charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca), 		 	 <0>
<0>     Psychology Department, McGill University.  		 	 <0> 
<0>     1205 Dr. Penfield, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1B1.  	 	 <0>
<0>  WEB: http://www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/chaudhuri/homepage.clab.html 	 <0>


------------------------------

From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:33:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Long Night and Oxy/Nitro asteroids.

Hi all.  Just thinking about the fate of worlds during the Long Night.  
Would some high tech vaccuum worlds be able to sustain themselves?  It 
might not be a pretty existence, but I picture them getting hydrogen from 
the local gas giant, and other needed gases from asteroids/commets.  
Don't know if this last part is realistic, though.  Could they get oxygen 
and nitrogen from gas giants?  This all assumes they have a decent 
manufacturing base so that they can produce/repair spacecraft, shelters, 
vacc suits and so on.  Food's not that much of a problem if you've got 
energy and even lunar-type soil.

Charles.

<0>    "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -Helen Keller 	 <0>
<0>     Charles Collin (charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca), 		 	 <0>
<0>     Psychology Department, McGill University.  		 	 <0> 
<0>     1205 Dr. Penfield, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1B1.  	 	 <0>
<0>  WEB: http://www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/chaudhuri/homepage.clab.html 	 <0>


------------------------------

From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 96 17:57:42 -0600
Subject: Re: Jump space theory

On 07/13/96 at 09:34 AM, somebody said:

...something about Starships consuming all the jump fuel on the
instant of jump...

>>This is cannon, 

How I hate that term! 

But if you must use it, use it correctly!  A cannon is a large mounted
piece of artillery.  Canon is a law or body of laws...generally of a
church.  The Church of Traveller?  <G>

Now back to Jump Theory....the following is not CANON, it is ERIS! <g>

=================================================================

                    How Jump Drives Work

Jump Drives have two separate components, the Jump Coil and the Jump
Grid.  Both are required for a ship to complete a jump.

The Jump Coil is a large device located somewhere inside the ship.  It
rips an opening between normal space and jump space large enough for a
ship to enter.  The opening persists for less than a minute.  Creating
an opening is an electro-mechanical action that requires a huge amount
of energy in the form of electricity.  Even so this uses only a small
portion of the fuel a ship carries.  Capacitors (or other storage
mechanisms) are often used to build up the required charge needed to
energize the Coil.  Preparing for a jump normally takes several
minutes while the capacitors are charged, the Coil is set in the
correct configuration, and the engineers make sure the electrical and
mechanical components are all working correctly.  Once a ship has
entered jump space the Coil is shut down, cooled and often serviced by
the engineering staff.

The Jump Grid is built into the ship's hull.  Its purpose is to
maintain a barrier between jump space and normal space.  This barrier
is required because, as you know, humans (and all known aliens) suffer
madness and death if exposed directly to the effects of jump space.
The Grid is energized before a ship enters jump space, exhibiting the
trademark violet and blue shifting patterns as the ship moves into the
opening into jump space.  The Grid runs continuously while a ship is
in jump space.  The Grid uses a substantial portion of the fuel a ship
carries.  Loss or reduction of power to the Grid is very dangerous,
and its function should be continuously monitored.  Most ships are
built so that the Grid overlaps to compensate for hull or Grid damage.
As you would expect, warships incorporate much more overlap than
civilian ships.

                   Why a Starship Needs Coolant

Starships produce huge amounts of energy as they travel through space.
Most of this energy eventually turns into internal heat that must be
removed to keep the internal temperature at acceptable levels.  Ships
generally regulate internal heat by circulating coolant through large
radiators.  A good deal of this coolant is inevitably vented into
space. Ships in jump space continue to produce heat internally, and
while in jump space they must continue with heat regulation.  In jump
space, as in normal space, the most effective method for cooling the
ship is venting heated coolant.

=================================================================

Like I say above, this is ERIS, ie. it's the way I do things.  If you
belong to a different church, feel free to do things differently. <g>

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------

From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 96 18:13:37 -0600
Subject: Software

Hey Jim!

Have you been busy writing upgrades and new software?  I hope! <g>

With all the talk in here lately about deckplans, I figure you're busy
producing a program to draw maps and deckplans.  Something you don't
have to be a graphic's artist to use. <g>

What have you got planned for Galactic 3.0?  <g> Will we be seeing
more than a subsector at a time on the screen, creating extended
systems, allowing interactive editing of sectors, more printing and
reporting options, huh, huh?  <g>

Seriously, what good stuff have you got planned for T4?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------

From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 96 18:21:59 -0600
Subject: Re: Pop Culture in Trav (was Corn Dogs)

On 07/13/96 at 12:14 PM,  "Peter L. Berghold" <peterb@superlink.net>
said:

>Along the same lines just 150 years ago chewing the fat from a cow or
>pig was a popular snack...  By fat, I mean the stuff that nowadays
>would be used for suet and fed to the chickadees as chickadee
>pudding. I don't remember what the snack was called, the closest
>modern equivilent I can think of is pork rinds.

>Today with our health concious culture nobody would even think about
>eating that stuff...

What you say?  I cut some pig skin into strips and fried it down just
last week...mummm, mummm, Good!  Don't do it often, but for an
occasional fat-snack, can't be beat.

BTW, do you know what that white stuff in Twinkies or between the
cookies in an Oreo really is?  That's the stuff that'll keel ya! <g>

Eris...
...I told you I was Southern. <g>
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------

From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:45:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Courier Services.

Hi all.  I have a few ideas regarding this.

1) The Imperium would allow private and competitive message carriers (in
fact they already do effectively, since private merchants can presumably
carry info as cargo), but would not allow them to have greater than jump-4
ships.  They at least would keep J5+ ships tightly controlled.  This would
maintain their monopoly on rapid message transport. 

2) Messages to worlds not on x-boat routes could be handled by three 
different sorts of carriers: private (FedEx, UPS, etc.), independent 
(Subsidized merchants with the ever-popular mail contracts.), or local 
government vessels of myriad configurations.  

3) An interesting business opportunity might be cut-rate but relatively
slow/unreliable transport of messages by non-subsidized merchants or
private craft just passing through in the right direction.  Basically, the
Haphazzard Message Company would pay people 250 Cr a ton to transport
letters and stuff in their spare space.  Merchants would only carry such 
parcels to fill a few leftover tons of cargo bay space, while scouts, yachts 
and so on could use this to make a little side cash with their tiny cargo 
bays.

Charles.

<0>    "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -Helen Keller 	 <0>
<0>     Charles Collin (charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca), 		 	 <0>
<0>     Psychology Department, McGill University.  		 	 <0> 
<0>     1205 Dr. Penfield, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1B1.  	 	 <0>
<0>  WEB: http://www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/chaudhuri/homepage.clab.html 	 <0>


------------------------------

From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 96 19:20:10 -0600
Subject: Re: The Iridium Standard

On 07/14/96 at 01:11 PM,  Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> said:

>>The governments of the French, Dutch, Italians, English, and Germans 
>>the 17th and 18th century still did everything they could to maximize
>>amount of gold they had.  Did *they* think the gold brought back from
>>new world destroyed the Spanish economy?  I doubt it.

>So do I (in fact, I _know_ they didn't). What has that got to do with
>it? 

Human nature, Hans, human nature.  Given similar circumstances people
will react similarly.  As a rule, we don't learn much or easily from
our mistakes, and sometimes the lessons we learn are wrong.

>There are lots of things that can only be properly understood in
>retrospect. It's not what they thought that's important, but wether
>or not they were wrong.

And cultural differences can change what *you* think is right and
wrong from what *I* think is right and wrong.  Even about the same
historical event, even if we have the exact same references and
sources.

History is NOT immutable!  A specific culture's experiences color
their understanding of events, including past events.  Anything
historical, beyond basic facts (and even then more often than you'd
suspect), is always an interpretation.  And as, over time, a culture's
basic memes change it will re-evaluate the past to reflect its *new*
beliefs.

Eris

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------




------------------------------

From: "Peter L. Berghold" <peterb@superlink.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:34:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Pop Culture in Trav (was Corn Dogs)

At 06:21 PM 7/14/96 -0600, you wrote:
>On 07/13/96 at 12:14 PM,  "Peter L. Berghold" <peterb@superlink.net>
>said:
>

>What you say?  I cut some pig skin into strips and fried it down just
>last week...mummm, mummm, Good!  Don't do it often, but for an
>occasional fat-snack, can't be beat.
>

Ahhh'lll be rat ovah! :) :) (not really... see below)

>BTW, do you know what that white stuff in Twinkies or between the
>cookies in an Oreo really is?  That's the stuff that'll keel ya! <g>
>

Grinding gears here... I'm a diabetic (so I won't be right over! Love the
stuff but it would wreak havoc with my vitals...) Don't eat twinkies or
oreos... Sayyy.... I thought down your way it was arah-see-cola anna moon
pie! :) 

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- -=-=-
Peter L. Berghold -- Sr Unix Specialist, TCG, Staten Island NY
http://mars.superlink.net/~peterb               peterb@superlink.net 
VOX: (718) 355-2722                              -or- berghold@tcg.com
FAX: (718) 355-4282   "... once more into the breach..."


------------------------------

From: Joe Walsh <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 20:57:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Jump space theory

On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> >>This is cannon, 
> 
> How I hate that term! 

I agree....how about, "it's in the literature" or something like that.  
Not as elegant, but it doesn't give the impression of perfection, divine 
inspiration, and inflexibility that "canon" does.  Any other ideas?

>                     How Jump Drives Work
[explanation snipped]
>                    Why a Starship Needs Coolant
[explanation snipped]
> =================================================================
> 
> Like I say above, this is ERIS, ie. it's the way I do things.  If you
> belong to a different church, feel free to do things differently. <g>

I belong to the church of "Use What Works," and this fits with the 
doctrine thereof. :)  In other words, thanks for posting it.  That's the 
best explanation of the jump process I've come across.  Very usable, and 
gives the players who choose an engineering character an idea of what 
sort of things their character might be doing just prior to and during a 
jump.  Plus, the stuff in there about the jump grid and possible 
damage effects gives me something to torture the players with out in deep 
space after a particulary nasty battle.  "What do you mean we can't 
jump?  Our drives never took a hit!"  "Ah, but you do remember the 30 
holes that opened in your hull during that barrage, don't you?" :)


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)



------------------------------

From: Paul Walker <tiger@datasync.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 21:32:14 -0500
Subject: Re: ID4 ****SPOILER WARNING****

>From: Joe Walsh <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
>Subject: Re: ID4 ****SPOILER WARNING****
>
>On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, Paul Walker wrote:
>
>> OK, I finally went to see ID4, so you can talk about it and it wont upset me!
>> 
>> **SPOILER WARNING*****SPOILER WARNING*****SPOILER WARNING*****SPOILER
WARNING**
>
>Yay!  :)
>
>
>**SPOILER WARNING*****SPOILER WARNING*****SPOILER WARNING*****SPOILER WARNING**
>
>Can we talk about the use of a computer virus to whack out the aliens'
>shields now?  :)

I support the TNE Virus (yes, it does require a suspension of disbelief) but
this I found a bit weird.  I mean how did he know that the mother ship (and
a mother of a ship it was) was going to execute that stuff he uploaded?  And
how did he know what their programming language was?  I'd've bought it
except for the line by Data...um, I mean the Area 51 chief scientist about
how none of the systems had been operable until the aliens arrived!!  BTW,
Joe, if Macs are really that powerful, then maybe you ought to give up your
Atari, and I'll give up my IBM...NOT!!!

*THUNK* "Welcome to Earth" - Capt. Steve Hiller

"Don't be shooting that green sh*t at me!" - Capt. Steve Hiller

Will Smith had the best part IMNSHO!!!  And the interaction between Steve
and David (Smith and Goldblum) was incredible!  A great movie, but compared
to what we all know and believe (from Trav), I found it very difficult to
believe.


Paul  {tiger}


------------------------------

From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:49:41 -0800
Subject: Re: Starship Construction

On 14 Jul 96 at 9:23, Joe Walsh spewed:

> If we made Traveller as realistic as possible - meaning that there were 
> no obvious holes in the setting, technology, etc. - would it still be fun?
> 

Probably not...  Ultrarealism in a form of entertainment usually 
isn't...

Stu
 
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from "Foundation"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located next to
Bob's Pet Shop.
Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    

------------------------------

From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 20:04:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Lester Smith.

On 14 Jul 96 at 19:21, Charles Collin spewed:

> Regarding the combat stuff, everything seems fine except the range bands 
> thing.  I _really_ think this is a bad idea.  I don't know why they 

I'm not crazy about the range band thing, but lets face it.  You can 
fix this quick enough.  I adapted the old CT range band system to a 
grid system quick enough...

> decided on this, but I don't like it.  I guess it's easy enough to make 
> your own movement systems, but I think this whole idea is bad for the 
> game's popularity.  It's too unrealistic.

This is a bit of an exaggeration.  Particularly since a miniatures 
rules system has been promised for 1997...

I can live with a range band system.  I'm not super excited about it, 
but I can deal with it.  

Stu 
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from "Foundation"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located next to
Bob's Pet Shop.
Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    

------------------------------

From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 20:04:09 -0800
Subject: Re: The Iridium Standard

On 14 Jul 96 at 17:04, Joe Walsh spewed:

> On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, Stuart L. Dollar wrote:
> 
> > I would anticipate a day when this may cease to be true about the 
> > USPS...  But I suspect that this will be true in the 3rd Imperium.  
> > Especially since an Imperial FedEx might offer Jump 6 service, and 
> > canon says that the Imperium has a vested interest in making sure 
> > that communications to the public stay at Jump 4...
> 
> yeah, you wouldn't want the "little people" having access to all the 
> advantages the government (and thus, the military) enjoys... :)

I didn't say I like it, but even according to CT, it is canon, but remember 
there is no x-boat system until after the Civil War...so I suspect it will be 
very haphazard in year 0...might evey be some Sylean Fed X's out 
there in year 0... 

Stu


 
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" -Isaac Asimov, from "Foundation"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This tagline brought to you by Big Ed's Taco Emporium, conveniently located next to
Bob's Pet Shop.
Stuart L. Dollar           sdollar@goodnet.com    

------------------------------

From: "David C.. Broussard" <broussa@connecti.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:52:45 -0500
Subject: More IG praise

I sent in my check for the autographed special edition copy of MMT. 
Unfortunately I misread the price on the edition, and sent in only $30.00.
 Matt Macthan E-mailed me that I had ordered a Softcover.  I responded
that I meant to get a HardCover, and could I send in the difference...He
has since said that would be OK.  Once again IG has come through for its
customers.  Keep up the great work.

Also a store in San Antonio got a prerelease order form for MMT.  It was a
four page foldout with lots of great Foss artwork.  Printed in big letters
was August 1, 1996 on the top, so I guess that means 18 days to go!!!
DCB
- -- 
David C. Broussard (broussa@connecti.com)  
Home page: http://www.connecti.com/~broussa/
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions represented herein are the sole responsibility of
the proclaimer, and should not be interpreted as dogma, doctrine
philosophy, or anything else other than blabber.  However, if you
REALLY like it, then gimme a dollar!
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@knet.knet.flemingc.on.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 00:27:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Niven and Ringworld.

On Sun, 14 Jul 1996, Charles Collin wrote:

> Hi all.  With all this talk about inspirations for the Imperium and 
> authors and such, I was wondering if anyone esle out there has tried/owns 
> a copy of the Ringworld game by Chaosium?  Has anyone 
> worked out conversions to Traveller?

   OOH! OOH! _Nice_ game...too bad it's defunct. It had one of the nicest
handling of anagathics and aging (esp. wrt skills) that I've seen.

   Lasers in this game were _real_ cool. I wish I had a copy of it.

- -- DLH "Warhammer"                           lhadley@knet.flemingc.on.ca
   Traveller stuff for sale/trade.
   http://www.knet.flemingc.on.ca/~lhadley/Profile.html

"...I do my job the best way I know. I'll keep on doing that. If somebody
gets killed, OK. Nobody lives forever, and I don't have any friends on the
other end of the muzzle"
  - Danny Pritchard



------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #250
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